Director of Digital Strategy at American Society for Nutrition, Amy Gavin, sits down with Chris Bonney and Zach Wilson to discuss how her association tried new things – that worked! – while keeping to the basics and getting it all right. Listen to ASN’s Digital Marketing failures and successes below.
Chris Bonney (00:10):
Hi everybody and welcome to the Web Marketing Insights Podcast. Again, very special episode. Zach Wilson and myself from Gulo Solutions here. We are at the Pew Charitable Trust building on location in Washington, DC for a very special episode with Amy Gavin from the American Society for Nutrition. She is the director of digital strategy there. Amy, welcome.
Amy Gavin (00:36):
Thanks for having me.
Chris Bonney (00:37):
Really excited, Zach, to have Amy talk a little bit about what they’re doing over at nutrition.org around digital marketing, content marketing, email data acquisition, all that good stuff. Amy, just to get started, do you want to just tell us a little bit about what ASN does and sort of what the organization is about?
Amy Gavin (00:54):
Sure. American Society for Nutrition is a nonprofit scientific society. We represent people who are working in the field of nutrition science, so those people might be academics or lab scientists, a lot of government officials and policymakers, people out in the industry. And also, people who first come to mind for consumers like us, so dietitians and medical doctors too. We have about 7,000 members all around the world, and ASN serves as sort of the joining force or the community for these professionals. We provide education, an annual meeting, four peer-review journals, lots of other professional networking opportunities. And we advocate for nutrition research funding and just for the field in general. Overall, our nonprofit mission is to make the world a healthier place through evidence-based nutrition.
Chris Bonney (01:54):
Awesome. Great. Thank you so much for that. Oh, thanks Amy for that. That’s great. I mean, you guys are doing a lot of great things at ASN. I’m very excited. Can you tell us what your job does? What’s a day in the life look like for you? And then we can kind of get into exactly how you do what you do, but tell us what you do.
Amy Gavin (02:13):
Sure. So, there are no two days that are the same for what I’m doing, I lead the overall digital strategy of ASN. So that includes digital marketing, our websites, some of our digital systems, like the integration between our association management system and other systems like websites and social media and things like that. I lead the strategy for social media.
Zach Wilson (02:42):
Okay. And as part of that, what are your, what are the initiatives that you’re most proud of and that you’ve taken on in the last year?
Amy Gavin (02:51):
Sure. So we’ve done a lot in the last year. There have been a lot of changes at ASN. We launched our new annual meeting two years ago, well in 2018, so we’re going into our third, our third annual meeting. So there’s been a lot of changes to help support that and to help grow that. And our membership is growing, we have a new journal so that has spawned new digital marketing activities too. But over the last year, one big thing we did is we updated the blog portion of our website, Nutrition.org. So we knew we had a high volume of web traffic, but we weren’t using our website for much other than just resources for our members. So I guess that’s to say our website didn’t have much of a marketing focus. So we wanted to know who are all these people who are coming to our site.
Amy Gavin (03:47):
We know we have a valuable domain. Nutrition.Org and nutrition is a hot topic. So it’s inevitable that a lot of users will come to our site from search engines. But what were they coming for? What did they want from us and how could we serve them? And ultimately if it’s our target audience, how can we convert them to become members and come to our meeting and subscribe to our journals? So our first thought was we have all of this great intellectual property that we’re sitting on from our journals and our meeting content. How can we get that on nutrition.org to drive more traffic and, and convert these people into joining ASN?
Chris Bonney (04:31):
Amy Gavin (04:32):
So, we worked with a partner and they redesigned a section of our site, our blog, and allowed us, the redesign allowed us to incorporate new types of content. And it gave us a more modern look and feel and more functionality for us as staff to market different programs and activities. So that’s been really useful. But one directive we had from this project is to gather more first-party data. Who are these people who are coming and a conversion for us at this time was to get them to enter their email.
Chris Bonney (05:08):
Yeah. So, what did you do exactly on the page? Was it just simply like a subscribe or join our newsletter? How did you draw them in? What was the copy and what was the thought process around that?
Amy Gavin (05:22):
Sure. So, on I think on every page there’s an opportunity for the user to enter his or her email to subscribe to a newsletter or just subscribe to monthly updates. Or if it’s content that’s really high value, we might require an email to get access to the content.
Chris Bonney (05:41):
So you’re doing different things depending on where on the site they are at. Sometimes it’s a newsletter pitch. Sometimes it’s a download something. Sometimes it’s, you know. Okay. Gotcha, gotcha.
Chris Bonney (05:50):
And you weren’t doing that before?
Amy Gavin (05:52):
Not really. There were a couple of places throughout the site, but they weren’t super successful. They weren’t easy to find it. They weren’t compelling to web visitors to enter their email. Whereas with this new design users are reading valuable content and then they’re prompted to enter their email to get more.
Chris Bonney (06:15):
So just nuts and bolts of it. You’ve got a blog post, great content, you know people are coming and you’re getting a lot of traffic and it’s high value. And so, is it fair to say what you’ve done then in the middle of the post? Are you putting things, promotional things and email asks in the middle of the posts? Are you doing all that at the bottom or where does it fall on the page that seems to be getting traction.
Amy Gavin (06:39):
Really different places. We, we didn’t want any blog posts to look exactly like another one. We don’t want people to get used to what they’re seeing. So, on some blog posts, we might have a call to action in the middle of the content that tells people why they should join ASN. On another one, we might have a call to action to sign up for a webinar. So it kind of depends on the content and what makes the most sense, in that post at the bottom of every single post, I believe there is an opportunity to subscribe to newsletters.
Chris Bonney (07:17):
Zach Wilson (07:18):
This is an interesting conversation. Just the way we’re talking about it too, because this is something we grapple with, with talking to the greater public and sometimes our clients too. And what is this, how do you describe this? This is a for digital marketers, this is called something called conversion rate optimization, right? Or conversion optimization. But you talk to somebody about this without giving all of the anecdotal information that you’ve just given, their eyes glaze over and they fall asleep on you. Cause you just don’t know. But ultimately what you’re doing, you’ve been doing conversion optimization to your blog posts. And engaging, finding opportunities to engage your readers and collect valuable information which is amazing. Is there any data that you guys have on that?
Amy Gavin (08:23):
Yeah. So nine months after the launch, well, let me back up. So, we launched the redesign with our annual meeting. So that worked out really well for us because we were able to use these new features and jump in from our annual meeting. We had all this content coming out of our annual meetings, so we were able to jump in and put everything to use right away. So that really propelled us forward because it showed an increase in traffic right away. We were excited, so we kept it up and pull in a lot of content from our journals and from our meeting and elsewhere. So nine months after the launch of the redesign, we showed an increase in users by 35%
Chris Bonney (09:11):
So tell us about, so you weren’t putting in a big effort around gathering the emails and first party data, but then you were, and you made a real conscious effort to not only make sure that the blog posts were unique in the body area of them, but that you were putting these various calls to action. So from another data point, what was that acquisition of the emails and the first-party data? What did those numbers look like for you?
Amy Gavin (09:41):
Yeah, so nine months after the launch, we had 2,500 web visitors to sign up to receive emails from us. So yeah, and in the context of our membership and our meeting attendance, that’s a pretty good number. We have about 7,000 members and about 3,500 people attend our meeting each year. So we have been really pleased with that number.
Zach Wilson (10:04):
Chris Bonney (10:04):
Did it, did it climb, did it spike and go up and down and for any particular events or is that just like a steady over nine months, there was X number generally per month that was kind of the same or
Amy Gavin (10:18):
It’s pretty steady. And I think that’s due to us publishing content on a steady routine basis.
Zach Wilson (10:25):
Oh, that’s 300 unique pieces of data every month. Yeah, that’s pretty, that’s pretty crazy. Yeah. I think, well, I don’t know to explore it a little bit more. I mean, from what you’re doing in terms of different channels, how are you, have you done anything differently over the last nine months to garner new readership or is it, is it organic? Is it content marketing? Is it social? Is it some of the whole yeah, I mean, what are you doing in terms of upping that or, is it across all channels its increased?
Amy Gavin (11:08):
Yeah. So there’s obviously a lot of marketing that goes behind it. We didn’t just throw everything up there and let the masses roll in.
Zach Wilson (11:18):
You built it and they came back.
Amy Gavin (11:22):
Behind the scenes, we were doing a lot to encourage traffic to come to our site. The organic traffic did increase by 21% during those nine months. So I guess that’s the masses rolling in by themselves. But we also ramped up our social media, so for every blog post that we published, we promote it on social media as well with a teaser and a branded URL, shortened URL to drive people to the site. For really high-value content. We did some ad retargeting through another tool where we targeted people who had visited our site before with an ad on third-party sites to try to draw them back in and give us their email address on this second go.
Amy Gavin (12:16):
Email marketing, we ramped up a little bit and we changed a little bit, whereas in the past we would provide full-text content and an email to the media for example. And we changed that where we would give them just a snippet and send them to our site.
Zach Wilson (12:37):
Teaser. Yeah. Yeah, that’s important.
Amy Gavin (12:40):
We also, yeah, we also noticed a lot of referral traffic, a big increase in referral traffic. So I think that’s due to providing tools on the page for people to share with. I enjoyed seeing that because it means people, you know, if they’re sharing our content, then it’s resonating with them and, and they like it. Yeah. Our referral traffic increased by 39%. So that was a pretty good number.
Zach Wilson (13:05):
Wow. It’s fun to just see, I mean, you know, we’re talking about a new nutrition, nutrition science and this isn’t like a, I don’t know, really masses fodder, but you know, to get some social traffic and some social shares and referral traffic, that’s gotta be really gratifying.
Amy Gavin (13:30):
Yeah. Yeah. You’d be surprised though. Nutrition scientists talk about the content a lot. There’s a lot to argue.
Chris Bonney (13:38):
Yeah. I’m sure that’s true. Hey, can you talk about, you use feathr, right, for the remarketing stuff. Can you talk about how long you’ve been using them, what it takes to ramp up with something like that? You know, what is it for those that don’t really are familiar with that term or familiar with the product? Just talk about what it is, why you chose it and how it’s working.
Amy Gavin (13:57):
Yeah, so we’ve been onboard with feathr and that’s FEATHR, feathr, for just over a year. And what they provide is a platform that enables us to track our web visitors by a cookie on our site. So if a, a visitor has cookies enabled, we can track them and then display ads to those people on third-party sites. So if they go to the weather channel after they visit our site, they could see an ad pop up from us.
Chris Bonney (14:30):
Can you control who, what sites the edge show up on? How do you figure that out?
Amy Gavin (14:35):
You can exclude sites, so if there’s something you want to avoid, then you can.
Chris Bonney (14:41):
That might be counter to your content or not in line with your organizational values or something like that.
Amy Gavin (14:46):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We haven’t run into that yet, but it is possible. Feathr is super easy to use. It’s very DIY. Takes no time to get started. There are lots of options within the platform. It’s been successful for us. We’ve been able to track a lot of conversions for registrations for our meeting and for webinar signups and different things like that.
Chris Bonney (15:13):
What’s the pull to get them back? In other words, what’s the ad about? Is it an annual meeting ad? Can you control what ads show up where or when or, or what is it? How do you get them to see that ad on Yahoo or wherever and send them back over? What is, what do you guys put on that ad?
Amy Gavin (15:31):
Yeah, so an example campaign for us would be we would design an ad, let’s say about content from our meeting. Okay. So if we had sessions about pediatric nutrition, we could design an ad that focuses on that. And then we go into the Feathr platform and say, hey, target everyone who’s visited our program page on our meetings site in the past six months and display this ad to them about pediatric nutrition. And then the ad would link back to maybe our registration page or maybe a landing page just about pediatric nutrition. It depends on the call to action there, but you can get really granular and who you’re targeting
Amy Gavin (16:20):
You can also geotarget. So we’ve had some success with that where there had been competing meetings and conventions and things and we kind of draw a circle around that convention and throw ads at people within that target area and drive them to our site.
Chris Bonney (16:41):
Okay. Smart. Yeah, It’s great.
Zach Wilson (16:46):
So what other, we’ve talked about, we’ve talked about a lot in terms of email marketing and content marketing, re-targeting. What do you feel tactically from an organization and as the director of digital strategy, what’s your best channel? What are you guys really succeeding and where you can improve? Just curious.
Amy Gavin (17:17):
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we’ve succeeded in the past year with ramping up our content strategy before we had all of this great IP that we weren’t really using in channels outside of the original channel if that makes sense. So for example, journal content, it just lived in our journals, but we didn’t do much with it outside of the journals. We didn’t translate it for a more lay audience to drive more people our websites. So that has been a big improvement for us over the past year and I think has led to a lot of success and a lot of new traffic.
Zach Wilson (18:00):
Let’s actually, I want to, let’s just dig into that a little bit because just coincidentally, in the last month we’ve had a quite a few conversations about this and this general notion and fear of people. We’re giving away our IP. This is protected. We don’t want to put out more content. We want to protect it. We want to make people pay. I mean, can you talk about that shift from just bureaucratically or from the board or how you actually sold that or anything along those lines?
Amy Gavin (18:36):
Yeah, I hear that a lot too. And we feel that way. But in order to get new subscribers and in order to get the media to report on our content, you got give them something, right? So when we share content from our journals it’s very brief. It has high-level data and the purpose is really to draw them back to the journal, the journal article and either subscribe or do pay per view on that article itself. Or the goal could be to attract a new author to submit his or her research to the journal. So there’s that angle as well.
Zach Wilson (19:22):
So are you doing, I mean, in terms of this process strategically, are you, you’re doing just like direct pull from an abstract or you have one of the writers say, you know, here’s this journal article. Let’s consumerfy this. Just made-up word. You know, let’s make this appeal to the masses and tease out some content. As you talked about earlier, you making direct calls or CTAs to drive people, say for more in-depth version of this or what do you, what are you doing and are you seeing a direct tie to those journals?
Amy Gavin (20:07):
Yeah. So it is hard. It’s hard to choose content from journals because it can be so scientific and so high level and it’s hard to know what’s going to resonate with the public. Our editors choose articles when they’re accepted and identify them as possibly being newsworthy or noteworthy. And then we have writers who review and write copy based on the article. And some writers have a more scientific slant and then some have a more marketing media, newsy slant. So I think that’s something we need to work is our voice and how we’re communicating the research to the public. But we’ve made great progress in the meantime of using the content really to advance our mission.
Zach Wilson (21:01):
Yeah, clearly, I mean with those, some of those numbers that you shared
Amy Gavin (21:05):
And, and it’s really interesting to see on social media and on the web traffic reports on what content really resonates. I mean some of it people just go wild over and then other times something that I think is really interesting as a consumer flops. Yeah. That’s interesting. So it’s hard.
Chris Bonney (21:29):
Is there a topic, I mean just for those of us that are interested in nutrition and you know, is there one, in particular, that kind of you remember that was really popular or something that you thought, what’s going on here?
Amy Gavin (21:41):
Chris Bonney (21:42):
Oh really? Okay.
Amy Gavin (21:44):
People like to talk about eggs.
Chris Bonney (21:46):
Isn’t that something? Okay. I think the article about eggs is huge, Zach.
Zach Wilson (21:49):
Is that on the site? I went to the site yesterday and that’s top.
Chris Bonney (21:58):
Are you going to do a sequel to it? Just to keep the blockbuster hits sequel, eggs two.
Amy Gavin (22:05):
Yeah. Eggs. Eggs are always a hot topic. Okay.
Zach Wilson (22:08):
Speaking of eggs, the place we went for lunch yesterday, I didn’t get it, but there was a, it was like a vegan burger place, you know, so the meat, like meatless burger place, impossible burger and some varieties of that. And one of them was like an egg. Like the burger was made. The Patty was like made out of like egg.
Chris Bonney (22:30):
That’s not vegan though.
Zach Wilson (22:31):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one wasn’t vegan, It struck me as like, Oh, I’ve never seen this before. I don’t know.
Chris Bonney (22:41):
Are eggs good or not? We need to know.
Amy Gavin (22:44):
Oh, I can’t answer that.
Chris Bonney (22:46):
I want to know. You can’t go on the record?
Amy Gavin (22:49):
Chris Bonney (22:50):
On behalf of ASN were declaring that eggs are…
Amy Gavin (22:53):
Hey, I can send you to a great website, nutrition.org, you can do a search. Okay, search eggs and read all the arguments.
Chris Bonney (23:00):
Okay, we’ll do it. I’ll do it.
Zach Wilson (23:04):
So if you were, if you were stepping away from this, looking back and you could have a conversation with yourself after this and say, you know, this is, Hey Amy, this is what we need to improve. This is one thing we need to really work on and improve over the next six months. Yeah. What would you, what would you say to yourself after this and say focus, focus, focus. Let’s improve on X
Amy Gavin (23:30):
Zach Wilson (23:32):
Another big one.
Amy Gavin (23:35):
We did a great job over the past year and continue to do a great job of acquiring data, acquiring first party-data in a safe and quality way. We’re not breaking any laws. We all know there are so many laws right now and going into effect soon about data privacy. So I think we’ve done really well with acquiring qualified leads. It’s in a good way because they’re offering up their data on their own. Where we have sort of fallen short is the second part of that plan where we figure out how to provide content to the different segments of those audiences. We did have, we have things in the works. We had a marketing consultant come in and lead our whole staff through a two-day workshop where we talked about our current audience and our target audiences and we narrowed it down to seven personas. So we will now be using those seven personas to really drive everything we do. Those personas will be integrated into marketing plans, into new product development, into how we use our website and how we use email marketing. A year ago I would if I could talk back, I would say get a better plan and for audience segmentation.
Zach Wilson (25:00):
Interesting. Yeah. And there’s, I think there’s something there too with and you may not even have an answer for this, but it’s just something that I thought about as you’ve collected whatever you said, 2,500 3,000 pieces of first party data. And if you’re just collecting email address, got to figure out, you’ve got to put each one of those people in new a bucket. So is there a, do you have a solution or a plan to do that?
Amy Gavin (25:30):
We do. We do have a plan. It’ll be harder going backwards with data we’ve already acquired, but there are tools on the market that we have our eyes on that we’re hoping to implement later this year. There’s a lot of stuff we need to do upfront to prepare to do that. But starting in the fall, most likely, we will be using a new email platform when a user comes to our site and signs up to receive our emails, it depends on what page they visited and what page they signed up on and that will lead them into a marketing funnel based on the the persona that we kind of apply to them based on our seven personas.
Zach Wilson (26:17):
So just talk me through that step-by-step. So I go to an article on eggs. As Chris said, mid page, I see, sign up for more monthly updates on our articles or whatever. I enter my email address, hit submit, then it dumps into this new workflow.
Amy Gavin (26:40):
Yup. Yup. So then you’re identified, so let’s say that article had a real medical focus and the focus was cardiology because of eggs, heart health. So we’ve now identified you as someone who might practice medicine and who might be interested in heart health. So we can now target you with more articles in that topic area.
Zach Wilson (27:08):
Interesting. And so is there anything me as the reader/subscriber we’ll have to do in addition to hit subscribe or is this just automatically done based on the metadata and the article and this email software?
Amy Gavin (27:25):
There are multiple ways to do it. We can do it where the user doesn’t know. Yeah. Or we could have the user select something. But we do want to limit barriers.
Zach Wilson (27:39):
Yeah. Friction is a big, yeah. User experience and friction is a big thing, but yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s going to be really interesting.
Amy Gavin (27:48):
Yeah. And then after a user signs up for emails, we want to give the opportunity for them to go to a central landing page and select what type of emails they want to receive from us moving forward.
Zach Wilson (28:02):
Oh, okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Interesting. Yeah. That will help that audience segmentation a lot. And driving, I mean, this is something we hear a lot to a couple months ago, we were talking to somebody about this problem. They’ve got tons of subscribers and they send the same email to, you know, 10,000 subscribers. It’s like, well, you know, that sort of audience and that messaging is not going to resonate with the people. And then ultimately you just get as a receiver of those or recipient of those emails, it just becomes noise because you’re not talking my language, then unsubscribe. Follows and so on and so forth. Yeah. It’s a vicious cycle, so, yeah.
Amy Gavin (28:54):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s tough.
Zach Wilson (28:55):
Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Are you guys, Chris loves this topic in terms of a conversational web and email marketing. Are you guys going to make a plan to make any sort of shifts in style in your emails? Are you guys doing the sort of like HTML high gloss or high fashioned emails or you’re going to move to more of a sort of a personalized conversational style?
Amy Gavin (29:26):
We haven’t really gotten that far. I think it depends on the content. We market our meeting differently than how we market our journal content and differently from how we market things to the media. So I think it’ll just depend on the content.
Zach Wilson (29:47):
Yesterday Chris put a screenshot up of a conversational email to a group of people and they all jumped out of their seat. Like, we can’t do this. This is like, what is this? This looks like an email from my boss.
Amy Gavin (30:04):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that might be useful for membership-related emails for renewing membership and things like that. But other things maybe not so much.
Zach Wilson (30:17):
Yeah. Yeah, you have to. I mean, it’s just like anything. I think in digital marketing and in general, whatever channel you’re working on, develop a hypothesis, run some tests and see what produces the best results, right? I mean, I think a lot of people in general get overwhelmed by just the idea of that. Like, I can’t, you know, I don’t know what to do. If you don’t know what to do, first step is just do, try something that you, yourself would want to receive and, or see. Right? None of this is, I mean, it’s very data-driven and somewhat scientific, but there’s not an exact science behind a lot of this. Especially, you know, if you’re in the nutrition world, if you’re an agency like us. A lot of this is just people just experimenting with some different ideas and some different hypotheses and seeing what sticks. But, you know, rinse and repeat is, it’s a sort of suggestion that I give to people and don’t be afraid to try something. You know? I mean, you guys, you guys are a great example. You know, taking a leap of faith and try something on your blog.
Chris Bonney (31:39):
It’s exactly right. You know, that’s a recurring theme for us. It’s a recurring theme on this podcast. We continue to talk about and mentioning and recommend. Just, just get in there and do it. Start looking at some numbers, tweaking and before, you know what that year’s gone by and you’re a pro,
Amy Gavin (31:55):
Yeah. I mean really that’s kind of how we feel about the data acquisition on the blog. I didn’t even realize it was so successful until months down the road.
Chris Bonney (32:06):
Sure. Right. Okay. That wasn’t a good idea. I’m glad we did it.
Amy Gavin (32:08):
Yeah. So I definitely advocate for just jumping in and trying things and like you say, there’s no science to it because it changes every day. There’s a new tool. There’s some new techniques I have read.
Chris Bonney (32:22):
That’s a great Segue. I mean, I think, you know as we’re getting ready to wrap up today’s podcast, want to ask you what is it on the horizon? Like you just said, there’s other things out there and you’ve mentioned a few things that you’re looking to do in the future, but what are, you know, what’s the big vision? Are there tools that you’re looking to get into someday or you know, this is sort of the vision for where you want to take things. Anything you can share in that regard?
Amy Gavin (32:45):
Sure. I think our work in audience development is going to drive a lot. There will be some market research done soon in relation to that. So that’ll drive a lot of what ASN is doing in terms of tools and techniques. A new email marketing platform is on the horizon for us. Also some new engagement tools for our members, which we hope will also encourage, increase in web traffic and increase in engagement on our sites. So things like things like apps that sort of mimics social media that our members can use to network with each other and share our content, an external content so that’s on the horizon,
Chris Bonney (33:37):
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Those are, yeah. That’s cool. You guys are doing great stuff.
Zach Wilson (33:43):
Something we should put a pin in and have a follow-up. But that just occurred to me cause it’s also recurring conversation, which is interesting that you have talked a lot about different toolsets feathr and the website as a tool. Your CMS as a tool. Yeah. The new email platform. What you haven’t talked a lot about, which is kind of fascinating to me is your AMS and how that’s actually used behind, I mean you mentioned it
Chris Bonney (34:19):
Talk for 40 minutes and no one said AMS?
Zach Wilson (34:21):
She said it once, it just occurred to me. Well she said it once. She said it once, but you know, this very interesting. Yeah. And I mean maybe we can have a follow up on just that and you know where the AMS stands in this whole digital marketing strategy.
Amy Gavin (34:37):
Well, I can give you a quick tidbit about that. We treat our AMS as the version of record, so we don’t do a lot of writing back to our AMS. We want to keep the data in the AMS as clean as possible and we preserve it so that we can use it for membership communications so that new users don’t get in there and then unsubscribed from things. So yeah, it’s not so much used as a marketing tool at ASN.
Chris Bonney (35:12):
Yup. That makes sense. Yeah, makes sense. Zach, you have any closing words as we get ready to wrap up for today? Anything you want to ask Amy, anything you want to talk about and share with the listeners?
Zach Wilson (35:25):
No. One, thanks for having us. This is a great conversation and again just don’t be afraid to try new things. Try to avoid death by bureaucracy in decision making. If you have the freedom to do so. It sounds like Amy has a lot of freedom to as a digital strategist to do these things and try different things. She’s clearly earned a lot of trust from her executive director and the board to jump off and experiment. So if you have the freedom to do that, runoff and do it and have some fun.
Chris Bonney (36:07):
Yeah, absolutely. Amy Gavin from the American Society for Nutrition, nutrition.org. Check it out. She’s doing great. Great work out there. Amy, thanks for joining us today.
Amy Gavin (36:17):
Thanks for having me. I hope our story inspires some of your other listeners.
Chris Bonney (36:22):
Yeah, awesome. I’m sure it will is great stuff. Web marketing insights podcast, closing another edition. Thanks everyone for listening. Please subscribe. If you’re watching this on YouTube, check us out on iTunes and Spotify and all the other great channels as well. Feel free to leave comments on any of those. We’d love to hear from you. Thanks for joining us guys. I will catch you next time.
Chris Bonney (36:42):
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